Wise Words from … Me. Discussing the state of publishing today with an agent.
From author Elle Casey:
I wrote a comment on a well-known blog one day a couple months ago, giving my opinion about the role of agents in the publishing world. Just after it happened, I was contacted by the agent who wrote the blog article who wanted to get my thoughts on the matter, and we had a nice back and forth via email. He asked me to contribute my thoughts on certain topics to his blog, which I agreed to do, and sent him the info on November 9th. Well, he never published it or did anything with it, so I’m going to just put it here (with his blessing, of course).
. . . .
The AGENT comments are in blue. Mine are in black/gray.
You said that slush piles aren’t on agents’ desks anymore but in the Amazon bestseller lists. Certainly there are books becoming major bestsellers online that go on to be cherrypicked by publishers as you mention, but where I differ from you is in that I don’t know if that model can last.
Why can’t it last? Each day an author uploads a potential bestseller to Amazon. Authors who’ve built a big following from scratch (like Samantha Young) can drum-up hype for an upcoming release and rocket their newest work to the top of the charts, just like traditional publishers have been doing forever. And then the publishers can pluck writers like her away from the fray and give her a place in bookstores, while also snagging the rights to the guaranteed bestselling sequel to that book. It’s genius and so, so simple.
. . . .
I just don’t know that I believe authors becoming bestsellers online through word of mouth will have the same sustaining power as those with agents behind them.
How does an agent bring sustaining power if not through his negotiations with a traditional publisher that gets the author’s books on a table front and center at the book store? We’re talking discoverability here, and I agree, if you have your paperback in stores you will likely find more readers, assuming you’re even put into stores which doesn’t always happen. I think we both agree that, right now, a traditional publisher will move more units than an indie can move in paperback. And an author working with a traditional publisher needs an agent, in my opinion, to get the best deal possible. I think we agree on this point too. However, with respect to ebooks, I wouldn’t agree a publisher or agent is needed. Enough indies have proven that, myself included. Most successful ebook authors have to weigh the benefit of more discoverability in paperback sales against the loss of ebook royalties, and more often than not the value remains in staying self-published.
Beyond that, as someone who has spent years reading slush, I wonder if crowdsourcing is an effective replacement for gatekeepers.
It’s happening. It’s working. And the reading material is more varied now than ever before, and readers are loving it! There are some readers who actually make it a habit of trolling the newly-published books, a treasure hunt of sorts, looking for the next big thing. Word of mouth, thanks to Goodreads and blogs, takes over from there. I don’t see this changing.
Link to the rest at Elle Casey
Elle does a great job of responding to the un-named agent, but Passive Guy would add that the “crowd” in crowdsourcing is known by some as “the market.”
, Amazon will pay Passive Guy a small affiliate commission on any of your purchases.
My experience has been that except for the elite 5% of authors, agents add little to their “sustainment”. And the gatekeepers are more often wrong as they are right, as 90% of first novels fail.
This is an agent who will not be in business in three years.
BOOOM! And Mayer drops the elbow off the top rope!
AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!
(cheers!)
Most books that fail do so because they’re not promoted by their publishers, not because they’re bad.
No wonder the agent did not post this blog. It probably made him think of the dire state of trad publishing and agency model as it was yesterday.
What is most telling in this situation? The agent asked Elle to provide material for his blog, then he sat on it and did nothing.
LOL! So she put it up herself, and PG found it, and now she’s famous!
A plug by PG can make anyone’s career, Mary!
I wish. I’d plug you all if that were the case.
@Suzan,
Yes! I read that intro about him sitting on it and doing nothing with it and thought “Typical.”
This.
Just another agent arguing to stay relevant in an obsolete business model.
Like my dad always said, “If you tell a person either they have to change or they have to make a list on the reasons why they don’t have to change, the majority will get working on the list.”
That’s a good one!
Thanks! My parents are very wise from the school of hard knocks.
Agreed, Mary, that is a great quote.
Yes, fantastic! Get working on the list. LOL!
I would suggest that everyone who imagines themselves as gatekeepers needs to do a little historical research on the role of actual gatekeepers. Few occupations are so easily perverted into instruments of oppression.
I am currently waiting for my return flight from Orlando, at the end of a family Disney vacation. I have recent experience with some literal gatekeepers. The best gatekeepers understand the difference between their role and their function. Their function is order, safety, and rationing a scarce resource, but their role is customer service. The kid manning the gate at the rollercoaster when it broken down last night was one of the best I’ve seen. He had turned a surly crowd into an audience instead of a mob. I was impressed.
One thing that all real gatekeepers need is a uniform. The uniform is a symbol of the delegation of authority that gives a gatekeeper the right to control the gate. Without that delegation of authority, the gatekeeper is no better than the troll under the bridge. If agents are gatekeepers, where the uniform? Agents who see themselves as gatekeepers are merely trolls.
Agents who see themselves as gatekeepers are merely trolls.
I like this. It also reminds me of something a pure non-professionial but ‘serious’ reviewer on GR posted. That she felt it was her duty to ‘save’ other from others from bad books by posting her reviews about books she didn’t like.
I’m sorry, what?
Opinions, yeah! Free speech, double yeah!
Self-appointed trolls… I mean gatekeepers, boo!
Thank you, Hugh! Back at ya.
“…that she felt it was her duty to ‘save’” others. Hilarious. Because OF COURSE we all have the same tastes as this pompous young lady from GR. Sounds like some of the ladies from my bookclub.
Exactly! It’s one thing to just review books, but to think it’s your duty to curate for the world. Like any one of us is the end all be all for the world. Um… the would be self defeating of the Indie concept.
Then I need to check out which ones she hates!
A long time ago, if Roger Ebert hated a movie, I knew it was something I wanted to see. He’s mellowed with time, so the old formula no longer works. Maybe the same will happen with the GR reviewer.
Gotta love it!
+10
Wow! The troll under the bridge. Great metaphor!
(And great reminder that I want to write a story about said troll! Grin!)
“I would suggest that everyone who imagines themselves as gatekeepers needs to do a little historical research on the role of actual gatekeepers. Few occupations are so easily perverted into instruments of oppression.”
Amen to that. Why does every gatekeeper think he’s a different kind of gatekeeper?
Simple enough. My guess, not knowing either party, is that the agent didn’t get what he wanted to hear.
This loop has pointed out, many times, that agents’ blog posts tend to generate responses in the range of “Squee! You’re so right!” to “Oh, you’re awesome and would you look at my project?” Having an agent on your side guarantees nothing at all, other than sharing your payments IF you get a trade contract. It doesn’t even guarantee a chance at having your print book make it into bookstores…and, that said, why would a pub do a print run and then not bother placing it? Shouldnt the agent be earning his 15% by asking why?
Just wondering.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” Upton Sinclair
On the nose.
Shorter agent emails: We let Amazon do the work, so we don’t have to.
I’ve made enough real money from ebook sales this last year to equal that of a nice advance from a traditional house.
A movie producer (actually two) approached me about optioning my angel series in September of 2011 when my book was at the top of the teen horror list in the Amazon Kindle store.
By February 2012, Elaine P. English, an IP lawyer, had closed the deal for me, and now the option is exercised and in movie development.
I also had a Christian publishing house approach me (before the movie deal), but in the end they decided the books were not a good fit.
I have since also had several conversations with agents, some who are pro the idea of looking at self-published best sellers, some who are too busy trying to close deals for their existing client list, and some who wouldn’t consider touching self-publishers, ever.
Every self-published ebook that sells is money a publishing house could have had, had they signed the author. The only thing to consider is: would it be profitable or would it consume too many resources vs. the amount of sales. Authors who are busy building a fan base and brand have a bright future ahead of them whether or not they sign with a traditional house.
“Not a good fit” — translation into English: “It’s not similar enough to the other books we already publish, so we’re not willing to take a chance on making major amounts of money. Our reputation among the most easily offended readers is not worth the risk.”
Translations R Us. I would fall over in a dead faint if just once, a publisher would say what they mean instead of speaking in euphemisms.
I had warned them—my teens kiss, a big no no in Christian YA lit. There were several other issues that would violate what they can/would publish, but one of their acquisition editors had read the book and loved it.
I was not surprised when it didn’t make it through the process.
“Beyond that, as someone who has spent years reading slush, I wonder if crowdsourcing is an effective replacement for gatekeepers.”
Ok. Keep wondering.
BTW, who usually gets the job of reading the slush pile?
Maybe the experienced agent did it at one time, but usually that chore falls to a junior employee — or an unpaid intern — whose motivation is simply to get thru the pile as fast as possible. Someone who rarely has more training or experience than the average eBook reader, & often not as much critical taste.
in New York houses its some English degree masters grads who may or may not have read enough good fiction in their young lives to develop the ‘acquisitions editor eye’.
I like Dean Wesley Smith’s attitude about such people –he gets angry. After all he’s forgotten more novels he’s read from his long history of reading, then they’ve ever dreamed of skimming.
After all he’s forgotten more novels he’s read from his long history of reading, then they’ve ever dreamed of skimming.
+10
LOL, OMG that totally rocks with my opinion of Chris Paolini’s Eragon (didn’t bother reading the whole series) (blech) copy, copy, paste, copy, *change names*, paste…
I mean, really?
People half my age are all… he’s soooo great!
While I’m saying, have you read Tolkian, Grimm, Classic sci-fi which Star Wars comes from, etc, etc…
It reads like bad pop culture references without the parody. When I try remembering all the books I’ve read to list on GR, my brain fries. I stumble across books from other’s lists and add them as I go along. ‘Oh I read that, Oh I read that!’ LOL!
Sorry, rant over.
Supposedly, Christopher Paolini gets better after the first book. But I only read the first book and couldn’t continue because I felt that I’d read better crossover fanfic. I wasn’t even remotely curious about what happened next.
Ah, well. I might check out his next series, if I hear a good buzz about it.
Exactly HG !
Dean has written and published over 100 books. The large majority are not franchise tie-ins. Besides he does not claim to be Shakespeare. He is a genre speculative fiction writer and I think what the other poster meant was his reading of novels in that genre or category of writing.
I think the point is valid though, in terms of spec fic he knows more than some kid fresh from Pace.
Great stuff, Elle! You are an inspiration!
Thank you, Hugh! Back at ya.
Very nice article! Great summary. Thanks for Representing!
(Elle, I do want to let you know, though, I had trouble reading it. The ‘let’s be friends’ button is smack in the middle, and it’s hard to read around it.)
Whoot! Representin’
I’m not sure why it’s doing that for you. I can’t replicate the error.
So far we have the author “claiming” these are responses from an agent but there is no proof. Just because they’re saying what you want to hear doesn’t mean the “conversation” is anything more than a figment of the author’s imagination.
I’m happy to forward the entire email exchange to PG for his verification. He knows (of) the agent, I’m quite sure.
Classy response, Elle.
Thank you. I try. Often fail.
I believe Elle.
The agent quotes sound very similar to many other remarks I’ve heard from some agents and some publishers. They don’t like to believe they’re not vital to the process.
They want us to say: “I have an agent therefore I am a real writer…unlike you *ugh* indies.” Meanwhile the agent is ruining their career more times than not.
+1
If I give some random person 15% of my writing income for life, does that mean I can henceforth officially title myself a ‘real writer’?
Maybe I’ll just donate the 15% to charity and call it a wash.
I haven’t run into any agents yet who want 15% of everything. They only represent specific works, and only get 15% of what they bring you.
Many authors self-publish and have an agent who represents some of their work.
I do all three. Use an IP lawyer for some, agent, for others, self-publish, too.
And, yet, some of the people who post here have reported agents who want just that. I’m glad you’ve avoided the type.
Great, calm, and well-articulated responses, Elle. Reading your post, it’s clear why the agent never published it – complete take-down of his business model, without inflammatory rhetoric.
I hope/wish you weren’t right. The reason he gave me is that he’s just been very busy. I’m glad you liked the article/short story, in any case.