From Electric Lit:
Publishing still isn’t an equal-opportunity space for people who aren’t white men — but at least we’re talking about it now. It’s hard to remember how limited and lonely the world felt before we reached our current level of cultural awareness of racial, gender, and sexual discrimination — when our discomfort with an all-white male literary panel might go completely unregistered, because outside of private conversations there wasn’t even a place to register it.
At the beginning of Brooklyn’s ascendancy as a literary place — with its rising concentration of writers, editors, publishers, and agents moving from all over to this one borough, and often even to just a handful of neighborhoods within the one borough — there was no guarantee that you would find the space, the reading series, the magazine, the press, the publisher here that represented you, where the work being featured might actually speak to you. And while these blind spots in the literary scene weren’t unique to Brooklyn, they were certainly represented here, and reinforced as well by the mainstream publishing industry that was based in Manhattan, a short subway ride away across the East River.
An entire decade later in 2010, when VIDA — a non-profit organization that gives an annual account of the number of men and women reviewed by or published in major literary magazines — released its first full report, the results showed a staggering gender imbalance across the publishing industry, numbers that on the whole haven’t greatly improved in the near-decade since. And yet, at the local level in Brooklyn between ’99 and 2010, change did come — slowly, painstakingly, and because of the action of individuals within the borough’s literary community. In this oral history we’re going to hear from some of those figures — curators, publishers, writers, and literary citizens — responsible for addressing the lack in Brooklyn’s literary scene, as they talk about what changed, how it happened, and what it meant.
One of the first problems that walked into our lives was that it was really hard to find women to come and read. The imbalance was something that became clear to us pretty much right away. Men would recommend each other, and men who were not qualified would recommend other men who were not qualified. It was amazing. They would be like, I clearly should be here, and my friends should also be here. Meanwhile women who were overqualified, who were incredible, would get there and be nervous, as if they weren’t allowed to have that space. And maybe for that reason they also wouldn’t recommend other women.
. . . .
When I looked at our own numbers, in terms of gender Tin House’s slush pile [the unsolicited work being sent to the publication] was 50/50. But when I sent out encouraging rejection letters — like, “This isn’t going to work for the magazine, but please feel free to send me something else” — as opposed to flat-out no’s, women were four times less likely to send something again. It seemed as if their reaction was, “Oh, you’re just being nice.” Whereas when I sent out encouraging rejections to men, they would immediately say, “Here are five more things. Here’s my desk drawer.” They would just take it literally.
Link to the rest at Electric Lit
PG says this whole article feels dated to him.
What in particular seems outmoded?
- Gatekeepers – What a dumb concept and concern about this or that group allowing you to participate in a social gathering despite your gender or race when you can reach a much larger audience online as an indy author, blogger, etc., than would ever fit into a physical space for an author reading. The online literary scene is larger and more important by countless degrees of magnitude than the Brooklyn literary scene ever has been or ever will be.
- What an antiquated concept to worry about being discriminated against by agents and publishers because of your gender, race or viewpoint. Why are you bothering to deal with people like that? Have you ever asked yourself if you are perpetuating such discrimination by doing business with a collection of such discriminatory people?
- Even being physically located in or near Brooklyn as an important factor for your success as an author seems archaic. In an era in which millions of interest groups form and thrive online regardless of the lack of geographic proximity, what does access to “Brooklyn” even mean? Although it’s not his cup of tea, PG has nothing against Brooklyn and hopes that all who would like to live there are able to do so, but to connect “Brooklyn” with success as an author is illogical. Your manuscript arrives at Amazon as quickly from Bozeman as it does from anywhere else.
a few tours of duty with souls from every background would cure this snoot of egos
I get that I would easily identify with a horseman/rancher/cowpoke whose people came from south of the border. But that is only one world like having a salad with only lettuce. The zest comes from the mix in my 02
I wonder if this is a stage some are going through; Lettuce ony But I have a feeling that they want ‘whites’ to grant them entry, instead of organizing their own pub company and taking their chances.
Its a little confusing; sort of go away, i need you.
I wonder if some would think they will never be understood no matter what they gain or loe in the real word
“Publishing still isn’t an equal-opportunity space for people who aren’t white men — but at least we’re talking about it now.”
And then after making such an astonishing statement (by pretentiously saying “white men” instead of “white people”, in the true spirit of American feminist political correctness), he then goes on to talk inclusively ONLY about (white) women and completely avoids mentioning anything about the continuing marginalization of black people in the New York publishing industry. Classic elitist white liberal.
“Publishing still isn’t an equal-opportunity space for people who aren’t white men — but at least we’re talking about it now.”
And then after making such an astonishing statement (by pretentiously saying “white men” instead of “white people”, in the true spirit of American feminist political correctness), he then goes on to talk inclusively ONLY about (white) women and completely avoids mentioning anything about the continuing marginalization of black people in the New York publishing industry. Classic elitist white liberal.
The inline advertisement was for MFA-level writing classes at some NYC magazine / community.
The OP is actually worth reading because some of the complaining is about mistreatment at the hands of Big5 bozos, and you can hardly fault those stories. Other complaining is “white a-holes we have met”, and no doubt those stories have valdity as well.
Still, as Terrance points out, it’s less about writing per-se than it is about “community that looks like me” and hanging out with said people who are like me, and that sort of stuff.
I’m beyond caring.
(As long as they don’t mess with me.)
But I’m starting to wonder what kind of world would result if they had their way.
Hmm…
So what part of this OP is supposed to show that their trying to be inclusive?
It seems to me that any person who looks out at an audience of white privileged men and sees no one of their own race or gender identification isn’t going to want to come back, nor would they recommend any friend go through the same, likely unpleasant, experience.
Common sense, anyone?
“There is no try, either do or do not.”
Some want to be part of a literary community. OK. Who cares?
Im still waiting for someone to explain to me how ‘terry johnson’ submits a novel to an agent or editor and white male privilege kicks in.
If Terry Johnson turns out to be a gay black Jewish woman and gets rejected its bias. If terry is a white dude abd gets accepted its privilege.
Same story same agent or editor. The ends determine the means it seems.
No I did not rhyme that on purpose.
I’ve railed at length about the evils of privilege. Any concept so ill defined is ripe for misuse.
When I read “Terry Johnson”, I thought it was the name of that black guy on Brooklyn 99, but then I looked it up and realized his name is Terry Crews (character name Terry Jeffords). But the fact is that either name could very easily be black or white–and male or female for that matter. There are enough black people with “white”-sounding names (to say nothing of biracial people or other ethnicities that happen to have traditionally white names) and enough women with gender-neutral or male-sounding names that I really do have to wonder how this bias toward white men is supposed to be so absolute.
“Publishing still isn’t an equal-opportunity space for people who aren’t white men ”
So, the very first line warns you it’s just another ‘white boys be entitled’ piece.
“When I looked at our own numbers, in terms of gender Tin House’s slush pile [the unsolicited work being sent to the publication] was 50/50. But when I sent out encouraging rejection letters — like, “This isn’t going to work for the magazine, but please feel free to send me something else” — as opposed to flat-out no’s, women were four times less likely to send something again. It seemed as if their reaction was, “Oh, you’re just being nice.” Whereas when I sent out encouraging rejections to men, they would immediately say, “Here are five more things. Here’s my desk drawer.” They would just take it literally.”
And the OP is surprised more men got published? ‘No, I’m not seeing the forest – there are too dang many trees in the way!’
I didn’t see them bothering to mention what percentage of white males were reading the ‘slush pile’ – that being where 99% of the rejections occur.
I really can’t tell if this is just ‘white male is bad’ bashing, or if they’re trying to say ‘it’s getting better – please summit!’ as trad-pub and agents try to get writers to not self publish.
As PG says, self publish, if you’re good enough the publishers will come to you (just read that contract carefully and don’t sell yourself short! 😉 )
Not sure the studies are all that valid, but it is said that women tend to network more than men.
Perhaps many of those women, after waiting six to nine months only to be rejected, checked with some other female acquaintances that seem to be making it as writers. Then decided to not be fooled twice. I have noticed that with the mating dance – a male will keep on trying different tactics until he gets a definite slap-down, and some will go beyond that point. Females give their “target” one shot – and move on to the next one if the bozo isn’t smart enough to take them up on the offer.
… and move on to the next one if the bozo isn’t smart enough to take them up on the offer.
— or doesn’t like what is on offer in the first place. We guys call that “dodging a bullet.”
Really? *Waiting* on someone else to recognize you and give you validation?
Honestly, things like this make me think that this group – and others like them – aren’t ready to function in the real world. You feel uncomfortable? What does that have to do with anything?
You can’t produce because there aren’t enough of “your people” around? Go back to your playground, kiddo – when you’re ready to do work, we can talk.
“Finding … the publisher that represented you” is also a weird concept. These are businesses. They represent an effort to make money. You should get a free pass to take their money and time just because your skin tone fits in a certain Pantone range? Pffft.
What, you were looking for them to say something intelligent after that first line? 😉
Everything is of course someone else’s fault.
Just another piece from the entitlement generation …
I hope you’re using “generation” in the “all people living today sense” and not trying to blame this on young people. Not all young people are like that, and not all old people aren’t. An awful lot of the people complaining are well over the age when they should know better, and most of the problems of people feeling entitled were *caused* by people who are in the older groups now.
Brooklyn Literary Scene? Bwahahaha. Talk about an oxymoron!
Well, military intelligence was already taken … 😉