The Big SFWA Indie Flap
From author Jerry Pournelle:
The big flap started last Thursday with a letter to all Science Fiction Writers of America (SFWA) members from SFWA President Stephen Gould.
. . . .
The story was told that this was a deliberate insult by SFWA aimed at independently published writers, and worse, it comes in the midst of a long and drawn out debate within SFWA over whether to admit as ‘professional writers’ those whose only credentials are self-published worked. One of the people who brought up the issue of admitting self-published writers to SFWA was me, and the case I used as illustration was Dr. Jennifer Pournelle, my daughter, whose book Outies
, a book written (with permission) in the universe of The Mote in God’s Eye
by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle has been a top selling science fiction book for decades, and remains popular (and very readable I would say, but then I would, wouldn’t I?). When Jenny wrote the book she solicited offers from publishers and received several, all with generous (for first novels) advances, but terms that gave the publishers the lion’s share of eBook rights so long as the book was “in print”; and since electronic books never go out of print, that means the life of the copyright. She did some calculations based in part on Mote sales, and some expectation the author’s name would attract some attention and sales, and decided to self-publish the work, again with our permission. The bottom line is that the book earned more in a year than the advance offered by the publisher, and she still owns all the eBook rights; and it’s still selling, as indeed it ought to since it’s a pretty good read. Not as good as Mote, say I, but then I’d say that, wouldn’t it?
I pointed out that this ought to qualify as a valid credential for joining the Science Fiction Writers of America. She was offered publication by a major publisher, and has earned more in self-publication than she was offered, and she retains all her rights in the book, and surely that’s professional? And since she has been the publications manager for a major California university, she’d be a pretty darned valuable member. My point was that if SFWA is the organization of those who write and publish science fiction in America, she blooming well qualified, and so did a number of other writers out there.
SFWA has dithered over this for two years.
Link to the rest at The View from Chaos Manor
, Amazon will pay Passive Guy a small affiliate commission on any of your purchases. 
Just gained great respect for Jerry Pournelle, and his daughter
SFWA needs to take that anti-indie beam outta its eye. (Yes, beam, cuz this is way past the “mote” stage.)
Nothing to add here, just still stoked that just as I was browsing his books, Jerry Pournelle showed up in the comments section yesterday. It happens sometimes that I think of someone and they appear, or I think of a song or a movie and it airs. I just wish I could call upon that power for other purposes; I want a million to appear in my bank account every time I think about it
I totally squeed.
(for real)
Me: [Comment on random blog discussion about So You Want to Be a Wizard books.]
Diane Duane: I’m Diane Duane. I just happened to be passing by and here’s what I think about your comment on my books: “Good point.”
Me: Diane Duane just commented on my comment about her books. I think I just squee’d my pants.
The fact that her credentials don’t qualify her for membership is, to me, a prime example of why I have no interest in joining their organization. I’m not quite to the point where I can write full-time yet but I’m darn close (probably by this time next year), and I recently turned down a $15k contract offer for my main trilogy of books from one of the big guys. Those books net me more per year than the contract I was offered.I plan to write more in the series, so why should I have to accept the kind of advances and copyright and work restrictions being “offered” when I can do more for my professional career by contracting my own editors and cover artists on my own?
I definitely understand Ms. Pournelle’s situation, and until authors like us are considered on equal footing with our legacy cousins I really see no reason to think twice about the SFWA. As far as I’m concerned they’re just another legacy trade organization, and we can do just fine without them.
A great find, this. And can anyone explain why science-fiction writers seem to have the most technically backward websites?
(No offense meant to JP, however, whose ‘Inferno’ I admire greatly.)
Because most of us have had e-mail since the early 1990s, and websites since the dawn of the internet. Seriously. My first website was in 1997, and that causes all kinds of problems with the website as it is now. Updating something that old and creaky, or moving the content, is a pain in the buttinsky, especially when we would rather be writing.
Kris, who updated her website in May and is still dealing with the mess. [sigh]
Just have to say, great comment. The first email I remember was through my college, starting circa 1996, and I didn’t actually have a website until after MySpace (there we’re talking at least a decade later).
I never once considered the problem of migration. I just see GeoCities-esque lay-out and I’m like “Er. I don’t understand what to do here? What’s this about? Are there comments?”
(Just visiting your site for the first time since update. I like it. Looks good.)
I’ve gone through that pain in the buttinsky twice, most recently by switching to WordPress at the beginning of 2013. I spent about two full days wrestling with pigs, by which I mean getting stupid plug-ins to work. Actually moving the content was a doddle with tea-breaks.
The reason I did this: It required less labour to scrap my old site and move to WP than I would have put in for one month of new content. After that, pure gain. I have little sympathy with anyone who thinks they are saving time by sticking with a crufty old hand-coded website.
My personal website, which has been up since the early 1990s, has an existing, hand-coded database of over THREE THOUSAND images with information pertaining to my writing.
Three THOUSAND.
Plus.
If you know some painless way to do that migration that will be less labor than scrapping it and starting over, I’d desperately like to hear it.
It looks like this pre-dates the “doubling down” letter, given that Pournelle left comments in the thread about it here.
Yes, this Chaos Manor blog post was written as a response to Steven Gould’s first letter: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/bill-gaubatz-rip-the-dcx-story-and-more/
This is the money quote from that post:
The post in response to the SFWA’s second letter is here: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/sfwa-responds-and-other-matters/
SFWA sounds ever more ridiculous the more I hear about them.
Pournelle posted about the doubling down here:
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/sfwa-responds-and-other-matters/
Back when I started writing seriously, I dreamed of belonging to the SFWA. Now, as a self-pubbed author, I make more in a year from self-publishing than probably many or even most current members. Now, I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club who wouldn’t have me as a member.
SWFA won’t change until the current generation of in-power folks retires and/or dies out, sad to say. Not only are their readers seemingly behind the curve in e-book adoption, the writers themselves are so misogynistic and insular and those type of people simply cannot change. They are what they are and will be for the remainder of their lifetimes.
SF/F readers in general seem to be pretty far behind the curve (as compare to romance and erotica) in terms of readers adopting e-books. I’m not saying that SF writers don’t do well with e-books, because of course they do – but romance and erotica do better.
My belief is that it’s the covers. Romance readers have long been tired of the covers – nobody wants to carry around a clinch book in public (and some people can’t even carry them around in front of friends and family without being targeted by derision). So readers were like WOO HOO now I can hide what I’m reading! And that primed the pump for writers. It doesn’t hurt that the books are usually fast reads and romance readers generally read quite a few books per month.
SF/F is still a genre that it’s okay to be seen carrying around in public. SF/F’s fan base, while they might be a technical crew, also doesn’t see anything wrong with carrying the paper books. As long as that’s true, it’ll be a bit slower on the e-book uptake. And as long as SF is slower on the e-book uptake, SFWA will be slower to deal with those who predominantly sell e-books: self-published writers.
Sad but true story: we have a teen to whom my husband wanted to give the original Feist Krondor series. Said teen has a Paperwhite. And yet, you can’t buy the books in e-book format in the US. Feist’s Krondor books are pretty long-running in paperback form, AFAIK they’ve not gone out of print in decades. SF/F in general and SFWA in particular are just way behind the e-book curve. And again, given that technical people are generally attracted to reading the genre, that’s surprising.
I’m not saying that SF writers don’t do well with e-books, because of course they do – but romance and erotica do better.
Hasn’t romance always been a bigger seller than SF? Though not necessarily a better income for writers, given the lousy trade publisher contracts.
I’m guessing erotica readers are probably happy they don’t have to carry around Ravished By Billionaire Werewolf Dinosaur Tentacles in public, either.
Edward, I bet that title will be available from Amazon in *checks watch* about twenty hours.
Since it’s been more than 20 minutes, I may write just for Edward.
Mia, I agree with your first paragraph. I’m not so sure about your statement in the second. Personally, I love tech, and my genre is fantasy (low tech), not SF. I’d hazard a guess that romance sells more ebooks because romance sells more books in general– nothing to do with pbooks vs. ebooks, or adoption of technology by the readers of certain genres.
When you say, “…you can’t buy the books in e-book format…” , you’re talking about what the publisher makes available. (BTW, I just looked on Amazon, and Kindle versions are available for many of the Krondor books.) But I don’t see what this has to do with the format readers choose. If the only way I can get a book is in paper, of course I’ll read paper.
While SWFA might be backward, I don’t think you can extend the generalization to SF/F readers.
SF has been slower to pick up e-books in general. There are still works by Heinlein that are not available (Go look for The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, it isn’t there). Ray Bradbury only released his books as e-books right before his passing because the publishers required e-book rights in their new contracts.
Still, you’re talking about publishers. Mia was talking about ebook adoption among readers. That was what I was disputing.
“SWFA won’t change until the current generation of in-power folks retires and/or dies out, sad to say. ”
I don’t think this is about age, though its often framed that way. As far as I know, everyone on the current SFWA BoD is either younger than me or only a few years older than me (and I’m not exactly a dinosaur–I’ve jsut been around forever because I entered the profession as a zygote). And the previous SFWA president was several years younger than me.
However, having started out as a romance writer and still having a lot of friends in the romance genre, I’ve always found sf/f writers to be, as a generalization (there are many exceptions, of course), less professional, less businesslike, and less market-astute than romance writers. And my impression throughout the years I was a SFWA member (I am no longer a member) was always that it was essentially a social club for sf/f writers, rather than an organization focused on the business and the profession.
Yes, there were always people in the organization who worked toward professionalizing it, but it seemed to me they were always undermined and made ineffectual by the general socially-oriented, anti-professional internal culture and tone of SFWA. And right up to the day I dropped out, I thought SFWA always seemed to be an organization where cultivating (or, alternatively, trying to undermine or negate) a sense of “belonging” was the most important thing and the primary focus–i.e. a social club.
And realize that Jerry, who wants this change, is older than Laura and I by a considerable distance.
Let me state clearly that I am not a SFWA member, and have not been for more than 20 years. SFWA’s heavy-handed attitude has **cost** me 6-figure contracts, mostly by signing my name to petitions without my permission **when I was not a member of the organization** This behavior is not new.
Ah yes, the classic “we represent you whether you like it or not” mentality. I’ve always gotten a chuckle over how they manage that one while also telling me my $35k/yr writing income is still amateur level.
I’d disagree about your viewpoint on the “reluctance” to adopt eBooks by SciFi\Fantasy readers and writers in general. As evidence I present Baen, which pioneered financially successful eBooks (using many of the pricing and marketing methods that self-publishers use, today) for over a decade before the Kindle was invented. There was a significant eBook market built among Baen readers who were desperately waiting for improvements in the ebook market, many of whom became early adopters of many e-readers. (I remember a lot of excitement over the Generation 1 CyBook in 2003)
Not that I don’t get where you get that impression from. Other sci-fi\fantasy publishers like DAW, Eos, Pyr, etc. were desperately trying to delay the adoption of the eBook, and Tor seemed… intrigued, but their attitude towards eBooks was pretty backwards in regards to pricing, DRM, etc.
Yeah, but Baen’s where people who can’t write real sci fi go to publish.
I overheard that at a con about five years ago. I was in a hurry and didn’t catch which author at which table said it, but there was no vocal disagreement.
I’d sat times change, but with SFWA, thats more of a hope than a reality.
Todd
Baen was where Lois McMaster Bujold, four time Hugo award winner, (Matching the record of Robert A. Heinlein.) went to publish. It’s also where the Heinlen e-book releases are coming from. Just saying.
I think he’s being sarcastic. I’ve heard similar comments (one directed at me, in fact… that I should obviously go to the Baen gutter where I belong). There’s a perception among the community that Baen is the dumping ground for icky conservatives who only write for gun-toting misogynists (in defiance of actual evidence).
I wish I was making this up, but… yeah, not. :/
I know a lot of wonderful indie authors who write terrific books, get on the big guys’ bestseller lists, and put out awesome products.
They all deserve to be in whatever writing group/organization they would care to join. They are professional authors.
However, I don’t think this particular example is a good one. This person apparently rode her father’s coattails into getting sales. Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong in writing fan fiction or a sequel to someone else’s work, with permission, of course.
But a quarter of the reviews of the book are one-star reviews, many of which mention that the book needs an editor. One reader even implied that he/she felt tricked by the author name being J.R. Pournelle, since one of the original authors was Jerry Pournelle. This seems the equivalent to Joe Hill suddenly deciding to write under the name S. King and pen a sequel to “The Stand.”
To me, that’s just not indicative of the quality indie books I see published today.
And this sentence is so convoluted that I couldn’t figure out what he was trying to say at first:
“…the case I used as illustration was Dr. Jennifer Pournelle, my daughter, whose book Outies, a book written (with permission) in the universe of The Mote in God’s Eye by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle has been a top selling science fiction book for decades, and remains popular (and very readable I would say, but then I would, wouldn’t I?).”
If you remove the clauses, he’s apparently saying that “Outies” has been a top-selling book for decades. That can’t be true, since it was just published a few years ago.
And if she did write it decades ago, publishers wouldn’t have grabbed electronic rights, since ebooks didn’t exist.
Perhaps he was trying to say that “The Mote in God’s Eye” has been a top-selling book, but if so, what does that have to do with the book she wrote?
Don’t get me wrong. I agree with the underlying argument. I just think this book was a bad example.
You’re kind of missing the point here, which is, what are the requirements for membership and could she have met them in a “spirit of the law vs letter” way?
Sales to an approved publisher/magazine at X amount of advance or payment. Meet that and welcome.
Had she taken the contract, it would have satisfied their requirements. Period. The “validation” aspect could be seen as having been met in the offer alone (ie, I, editor/publisher, award you validation by saying this manuscript is worth our time and money to publish and offer to genre readers.)
The only question is if the validation of the “almost” is sufficient in conjunction with subsequent self-publishing and sales reaching and exceeding their “advance” requirements. (Or what might be their sales requirements for a self-pubber’s admission in future.)
If she had TAKEN the contract (coattails or no), the “validation” of an acceptable publishing house with acceptable advance would have been met. She’d be a shoo-in to SFWA.
So, given the reason she did not accept had to do with a lousy contract clause, and given she went ahead and published the novel and is making pro-level money from it, and given that it was on the long list for the James Tiptree, Jr. Award in 2011–it has, I think, shown that the only thing barring the author from membership is, TADA, she did not accept the limiting, lousy contract.
If anything, they should let her in the club for turning down a contract oppressive to authors. Good on her.
And do be very careful of deciding that the pro is the one who gets a bunch of good reviews on Amazon. That’s a dangerous road to go down. Many of the bad reviews might have been comparing Outies to one of the classics of the SF field that ends up routinely on “Best Novels of SF” lists, including NPR’s. How many of us would get crabby reviews if our names were Gaiman, McMaster Bujold, Ellison, Butler, Moorcock, Lieber, Herbert, Martin and folks were comparing us to our namesakes?
(Oh, and I think the sentence has a typo or was hurriedly written. It’s MOTE that has been popular and around for decades. I also thought there for a moment it was OUTIES that was referred to. )
Again, I agree with the underlying premise.
This author, and other self-published authors, should be allowed into their little elite group, if those authors want to join.
My point was that a better example could have been used. Because of the reasons that were used to argue the point, the debate suffered.
Who cares who her father (or mother, or pet gerbil) was? She wrote a book, and it sells well. I read Joe Hill’s vampire book because he’s Stephen King’s kid, and I hoped the apple wouldn’t fall far from the tree. It doesn’t, and Joe Hill is a great writer.
“But a quarter of the reviews of the book are one-star reviews, many of which mention that the book needs an editor.”
And 3/4 of the reviews are not. Pretty sure just about everyone’s first (and maybe even second and third) self-published book could have used an editor. I’ve read a good number of excellent stories that had some bad editing and screamed “self-published.”
But my question is… what does this have to do with the fact she’s sold more than enough books to meet the organization’s sales qualifications? I don’t understand how someone should be discounted because you don’t agree with their family name or some 1-star reviews. I’ve got 1-star reviews… does that mean I shouldn’t qualify either?
“Who cares who her father (or mother, or pet gerbil) was? She wrote a book, and it sells well.”
This is exactly my point.
All the rest of the information was superfluous.
She was just following Groucho Marx’s principle: never join a club that would have you as a member.
I think the same maxim ought to apply to all the great self-publishing SF writers out there. Even if they changed their rule today, would you want to put up with their condescending sh*t?
I’m not a lawyer, but wouldn’t the organization be correct to worry not about whether one applicant, the worthy writer daughter of a celebrity author, should be allowed to join, but how changing the rule just for her would set a precedent that would then open doors to a lot of less worthy cases?
And… how would they be less worthy than any author who is currently a member?
Because Deborah Smith says so, you silly person. Don’t you know that’s the only reason she needs?
Doh! My sincerest apologies.
And we don’t want to have to explain that to you twice.
If you claim to be a professional writing organization, purporting to measure qualification by money, then money should be the ONLY bar measured for entry, not the means by which it is earned.
The HWA got into that trap when they were endorsing a list of publishers rather than a money level, and some of those houses turned out to be career-swallowers–the exact opposite of “professional.”
Remove the unemotional and fact-based element of money, and it reveals its true self: egotism.
If you ask me, the SFWA should admit all professional authors under the original meaning of the word ‘professional’. That is, if you’re receiving payment for your work, whether or not that’s from traditional publishers, then that’s good enough for membership, IMHO.